Neigh Sayers
Many of us in our dog community were — or still are — active in the horse show community. I thought it would be interesting to compare some of the aspects of showing horses and showing dogs. I reached out to people who are active — and successful — in both venues. I cannot thank them enough for the time they took to educate me.
Just as we have different venues in our dog world — conformation, obedience, rally, field trials, agility, dock-diving, scent work, coursing, barn hunt, and on and on — there are many venues in the horse world: horse shows (Arabs, Saddlebred, etc.), hunter-jumper, gaited horses, rodeo, etc.
I am indebted to Van Jacobsen and Lori Lawrence, both of whom are great representatives for the horse community, for sharing their knowledge with us.
Van has been involved with horses — Arabians — since 1970. He was a professional trainer, and is now an exhibitor and a judge. He is currently the chair of the Arabian Horse Association’s Ethical Practice Review Board, and has been for the past 30 years. He has always had dogs, started showing an English Setter in 1978, and has competed successfully in both conformation and obedience. One of his English Setters, GChG Ciara N’ Honeygait Belle of the Ball JH CGC FDC, made history in 2022 as the first English Setter bitch to win the Sporting Group in Westminster history.
Lori has been riding horses since the age of three. She has been heavily involved in breeding and exhibiting Arabian/Half-Arabian horses and, more recently, American Saddlebreds. She has bred and exhibited Whippets for more than 40 years under the Starline prefix. Notably, Starline bred the top-producing stud dog of all time, Ch. Starline’s Reign On, sire of 137 American champions to date, as well as the second most winning Whippet in history, GCh. Starline’s Chanel. The number of AKC champions bred by Starline is estimated at 180 to date. Additionally, Lori enjoys judging Whippets around the world.
She says, “It's always wonderful to share your passion with like-minded people, whether it's in horses or dogs. The friendships built in both settings and the love shared for the horses and dogs is cherished by me.” Lori currently participates in six to eight horse shows annually, and only shows or judges a handful of dog shows a year. She says: “I enjoy introducing a new superstar puppy to the scene when I can, but I don't have the time to fully dedicate myself to both sports anymore. Breeding and judging remain a passion of mine. However, I can only spread myself so thin, and I also have grandbabies to spend time with!”
We have often talked about the fact that we have too many dog shows, and there is a vast difference when compared to horse shows. Van says, “If you show a horse in six or eight shows a year, that is a lot. Our shows are longer — many are four days, with our big show in Scottsdale every February being 11 days and our US and Youth/Midsummer Nationals both being 10 days long. [These are individual shows – not a cluster.] The ‘big’ exhibitors are going for the National awards, and there is no benefit to overshowing. Of course, we also have shows to attract the less experienced.”
Compare that to dogs that may be shown at 100 or more shows a year — and are flown from coast to coast. Of course, it is easier to travel with a dog than a horse, but I believe too many dogs are shown at too many shows, and that should change if we are serious about caring for our dogs.
It is a great feature of our dog community that amateurs and professionals compete at the same venue, and on the same level — although there are some who think it is not a level playing field. These are also one of the few competitions in which men and women compete equally. Van says, “In the horse world, a majority of our riding classes are geared to amateurs and youth. The professionals will show in the open classes and an amateur can also show with them, depending on the level of quality at the show.”
From Lori: “I believe that amateurs can compete equally with professionals in dog shows, especially when judged by ‘breeder-judges’ or very confident all-rounders. However, many judges tend to choose familiar faces when they are uncertain about the breed they are judging. In the world of horses, it's rare to see amateurs competing with professionals in Arabians/Half-Arabians, but in the case of Saddlebreds, it's quite common for amateurs to participate in Open classes alongside professionals.”
Certainly, our companion events — obedience and rally — are mostly geared to the amateur owner-handler. Field events have classes that are separately designated for amateurs or professionals. We have many exhibitors in our community still showing in their graying years, and I have seen (especially at the Olympics) older riders competing. But there is definitely a difference in what is required of the exhibitor.
Van tells us, “I do think you probably need to be in a bit better shape to show horses either under saddle or in hand … to run our horses around the ring in conformation classes … it is a large ring, and horses run fast! It appears to me that dog shows can cater to someone less fit, depending on the breed.” I certainly agree with this, although I see many handlers running their dogs at a pace that makes me think there are practicing to show Arabians.
We have members of both communities who love their relationship with animals and the competition, and have come over to our dog community from showing horses primarily for financial reasons.
Van says, “It will cost me $10,000 to take my horse to our Nationals: The trainer has a show fee, hauling fee, entries, stalls, etc. To go to a smaller local show two weeks ago, the show fee and hauling was basically $1,000 plus entries — another $400. This is high, but some trainers are much higher. It is cost prohibitive for so many exhibitors, and that is why we are losing entries and kids are finding so many other activities. To keep a horse in training will run a minimum of $1,000 per month plus vet, shoeing etc. My experience with dog-show entries and handling fees is much more reasonable.”
Many exhibitors at dog shows feel the pinch of the cost involved, but when compared to horse shows we realize that all things are relative!
Advertising and rankings in our dog community are big business, and rankings seem to drive the amount of travel and shows that we have. As a matter of fact, with the various ranking systems, it gets confusing as we see two or three different dogs of the same breed claim to be number one. As Van tells us, “There is a lot of advertising in the horse world, but not on ranking. [It is based] on past achievement.”
In our dog-show community, it is not unusual for a judge who is approved for multiple groups to officiate at 50 or more shows a year. Not so for a horse-show judge.
Van says, “As a judge, I judged four shows in 2024, but since I have been a judge for 42 years, I am often asked to do the larger shows … so this year Scottsdale, 10 days; Sydney, Australia, five days; Santa Barbara, four days, and Canadian nationals, eight days … so 27 days of judging for four shows. When you judge internationally, you generally just judge conformation. I have judged many international shows: Australia, South Africa, Brazil, Italy, Kuwait, Equador, Uruguay, Canada … and I have judged our U.S. nationals 10 times.”
How are the judges in both venues prepared to judge? The AKC system has had many different iterations, but mostly judges’ education is done by attending national specialties and seminars, speaking with breeders and other judges, taking online educational seminars, and sometimes doing in-ring observations with approved judges. Following these educational opportunities, the wannabe judge is interviewed on each breed applied for by an AKC field representative, who evaluates the person’s knowledge of that breed standard. When approved (as a permit judge), the judge is then observed by a field rep at every show he judges until taken off permit status.
Is this the best way to educate our judges? If there was a sure-fire way to make all judges great, knowledgeable and ethical, AKC would gladly use that system. But I don’t think such a system exists. It takes all the educational opportunities available to us, plus experience and that mystical “eye for a dog” that not everyone has — no matter how much study or memorization of standards takes place — to be a “great” judge. It is what it is.
What of the education for judging horse shows? Van continues: “Our national governing body for most (not all) breeds of horses is the United States Equestrian Federation (USEF). Our breed association is the Arabian Horse Association (AHA). An individual who wants to be a judge of Arabian horses must be approved by both the AHA and the USEF. This is the same for many other breeds of horses as well. The AHA has a Judges and Stewards Education and Evaluation Commission that is in charge of educating and evaluating judges and stewards. Among other things, they put on a multi-day judges’ and exhibitors’ school in conjunction with a horse show. People can attend who just want to know more about how judging works, and others attend to take part in the school, which is a requirement to even apply to be a judge.
“Horse-show judges have to go through an education and evaluation process. Once you pass the multi-day test ... you are a learner ‘r’ judge [similar to a permit judge in the dog community] .... then you apply for your small ‘r’ or recorded status with the United States Equestrian Federation. You are a learner or apprentice judge before you can apply for your license. After you hold that license for a while and judge, then you apply for your large ‘R’ or Registered status. Many more years judging, then you can apply for your National Regional Status: ‘N/R.’ To get N/R status you will have oral interviews and must have major experience. You pass an annual written test and must attend the seminar every three years and retest for your N/R status (oral interview) every six years.
“To get a promotion to a large ‘R,’ the applicant for promotion must have officiated a minimum of five days at two or more competitions. To be considered for promotion, one of the shows must have had a minimum of 440 horses or entries.”
(Doesn’t this sound a lot like my suggestion of having major and minor shows whereby new judges can start and get experience at the minor shows?)
I have been part of our dog community since 1963, and to some degree, there have always been those who constantly complain about judges. It is my sincere belief that, for the most part, our judges try to reward the best dogs on that day. Are there judges who lack integrity or knowledge? Perhaps, but certainly not to the extent that is talked about, and absolutely not worthy of the innuendos and out-and-out lies and rumors that sometimes abound and may even be posted on Facebook as fact.
Lori says, “Dog-show judges often evaluate multiple breeds and groups, and may not have an in-depth knowledge of ‘breed type’ for each breed they judge. Most dog judges start by being approved for the breed they began with and then expand within that group. Many judges may lack a complete understanding of the most intricate details of a breed. Instead, they may rely on showmanship and are impressed by dogs that move overly fast on the side. In the case of horses, most judges are well versed in the specific discipline being competed in. For example, at a National or World Championship level, Saddle Seat horses will be judged by trainers and breeders with many years of experience in that division. The same judging criteria apply to Western, Reining or Hunt Seat, and other specific disciplines.”
Van says, “I do think that there are good or better judges in both areas. You can see a horse-show judge leaning toward a certain exhibitor, and you see that in the dog show world as well. Of course, it may be that the exhibitor presents a dog or horse to their best advantage. As a judge and as chair of our Ethics committee, I think it is ESSENTIAL that judges avoid the appearance of impropriety at all times. I think the horse-show world is better at this than the dog-show world. I think it is unusual that they sit and watch the groups that they will be judging the next day, etc.”
I don’t necessarily agree with all these ideas, but I can understand why someone may feel that way. Almost every dog judge has been involved in our dog community for a long time, and it is inevitable that we know many of the exhibitors — professional or owner-handlers. A casual conversation should not be seen as anything more than that. I am happy that I have many friends in our community — outside the ring! Inside the ring, only the dogs matter — and I believe (perhaps naively) that most judges are the same. But I also realize that there is the inevitable naysayer who sees a conspiracy in everything. (By the way, judges watching groups is not acceptable in some other countries, but to be honest, I don’t care what another judge does.)
Lori says, “I've found that at this point in my life, horses are a much more family-oriented sport for me. My husband, Carey; daughter, Nicole, and now my 5-year-old granddaughter, Opal, all love the horses, breeding babies, and, of course, the competitions. Whippets are still a huge focus in our family. We have five that grace our couch right now and some extremely promising young ones that will soon be introduced to the fancy. It is more difficult to give my full focus to the Whippets while I travel back and forth across the country for our show horses and enjoy two grandchildren at home. That said, with the help of other like-minded and dedicated breeders, I have been able to carry on Starline Whippets in a way that is very meaningful to me. I consider myself to be a preservation breeder and am dedicated to healthy dogs that truly fit the breed standard. We have always had small numbers, and there is not a crate or kennel at our house, but it has not deterred us from consistently breeding and exhibiting some of the top Whippets in the country for decades now.
“We have followed the same philosophy with the horses, with just one outstanding Arabian and one outstanding saddle-bred mare making up the vast majority of our breeding program. It seems to be working out well, with several of our Starline-bred horses already garnering National Championships.
“On a side note, I have had the pleasure of knowing and exhibiting to Van many times over the years. He is one of the most knowledgeable and fair judges I have shown to.”
It is clear that there are many similarities — and some differences — between our dog work and that of the horse world. We are indebted to Van and Lori for sharing their knowledge, experience and honesty with us.
What do you think?