Breed and Group Judging

I think it is safe to say that most group judges would prefer to judge the breeds in the group that they are to judge. Obviously, this makes the group judging move along faster, but is speed really all we should be concerned with?

There are usually a few opinions about every statement, so I reached out to some significant people in our community representing judges, exhibitors and professional handlers. Additionally, I asked for their opinion on three ideas:

• In breeds that only have a singleton entry, allow exhibitors to skip the breed judging and compete in the group, requiring them to report this decision to the superintendent in the morning as is done when changing classes for a dog.

• In some countries, there is a ring set-up before group judging and the group judge walks through this ring, examining the breeds he may not have judged during the day — thereby allowing the judge to examine this dog more quickly in the group ring.

• Extend placements to have six in the group ring.

Some of the questions I asked were:

• If you are an exhibitor and your dog doesn't show very well in the breed but then is much better in the group, are you concerned that the breed judge will remember the poor showing? 

• What are your thoughts if the group judge is good for your dog but the breed judge might not be? 

• If you compete in NOHS, do you consider the judge for the NOHS group when making an entry?

• If you are a judge, do you agree that you prefer to judge the breeds in that group? Can you see a disadvantage to this? (i.e.: Do you form an opinion before the group judging?)

I send my sincere thanks for the very many responses I received.

A multi-group judge who also shows on a regular basis says, “Sometimes I think we are competing for a group placement with our breed performance.” 

A multi-group international judge responds, “I can only hope the judge will take a fresh look at my dog at group level. Some dogs are not morning dogs, just like people. An 8 a.m. start for some … well, they are just not ready, but by the time the group happens they are more comfortable with their surroundings, temperature, etc.”

A professional handler responds, “I believe judges judge in the moment.”

In this instance, I hope the group judge has enough integrity and is professional enough to know that his job is to judge the dogs in front of him at that time. However, I do believe that subconsciously a really poor breed showing remains in the back of a judge’s mind, so that it may take a superior showing in the group to overcome that. I believe that most group judges are mentally making a cut of the breed dogs as ones to be considered in the group later that afternoon. As a multi-group judge says, “I have an idea of at least six dogs I can consider for group placements, which I feel is an advantage.” While I agree, I would sincerely hope that a judge also approaches the group with an open mind if a dog looks much better in the group ring. The size of the group ring might help some dogs/breeds in comparison to the smaller breed rings. 

Making a decision to show or not gets a little more difficult if you believe the breed judge might not like your dog but the group judge does. One professional handler simply says, “If I know the breed judge doesn’t like my dog then I don’t show.” Conversely, a judge who has his dogs shown says, “It is not a problem for a very good example of a rare breed.”

Another judge who also has his dogs shown says, “Take your shot — my dogs always look great in the ring.” I think an international judge sums it up by saying, “I have been in situations where my breed judge was not who I would have picked for my present dog. I will say it is a bit nerve-racking getting by that first step. Depending on the breed competition it can work in your favor, but you still hold your breath.” I have also been in that situation many times, and it is indeed nerve-wracking until the breed judging is completed. 

A very successful breeder-owner-handler answered the question about NOHS by saying, “I do not consider the NOHS judge when entering; however, I do participate unless I win the regular group. I do consider the group judge when I enter a show.”  An international judge replied with, “I don't compete in NOHS, but I've friends who do so. They ALWAYS consider this (and they choose their shows ONLY if there will be NOHS competition).” I think some of this depends on how successful and serious an exhibitor is about competing in NOHS. Those who are trying to be NOHS ranked would consider this more than the more casual competitor.

When the discussion turned to the pre-judging procedure used before group judging in some countries, an international judge corrected me by saying, “Actually, it's more than just ‘walk’; judges are supposed to ‘judge’ the exhibits that they haven't previously judged on that day. I think it's great; a fantastic way of saving time in the group judging.” That was not my experience, and apparently it was not what another multi-group judge experience, saying: “It was not as good as the regular evaluation in the group.  No room for moving in the pre-judging ring.” Another judge sees some value to this procedure, saying, “I like the idea. Saves time, as some shows are getting incredibly long. I think show chairs and supers need to learn better time management. Starting groups at 3 p.m. on a Sunday with lots of absentees is just stupid.” 

Although speed of judging should not be as important as good judging, there simply is no reason not to take every opportunity possible to allow exhibitors and judges to finish a show in a timely manner. I have been on my soapbox for years asking that superintendents always schedule the groups to start at noon or 1 p.m. Remember, group judging times can always be moved back, but they cannot be moved forward. 

With one exception, my respondents were not in favor of allowing singleton breed entries to automatically advance to the group competition. As one judge succinctly said, “All entries should be judged at the breed level, regardless of number. Why should the path to the group be different?” Another judge pointed out: “Remember: you could withhold, or DQ, or give a second to a singleton class dog. It NEEDS to be shown in the breed ring.”

When it comes to the possibility of six placements in the group, one judge seemed to read my mind when she said, “I am unsure how I feel about six placements. Sometimes I could use them! But there are times when finding three is hard!” There definitely are varying degrees of quality in many breeds in different areas of the country. There are times and groups that are extremely strong, and more than four ribbons could easily be awarded, but as entries in most shows continue to decrease, there are also weaker groups in which it is difficult to find four placements. As a professional handler said, “Everyone doesn’t need a participation ribbon.” And an owner-handler said, “I do not agree with six placements — as it is, I feel ribbons are too freely handed out ….”

Almost universally, the respondents prefer shows where the group judge also judges the breeds in that group on the same day. One multi-group judge says, “I prefer to judge the group where I have judged the majority of the breeds. I will be judging the dogs to my preferences and idea of the standard. I feel more efficient when I have judged most of the Best of Breed dogs in the group.”

An international judge points out an additional reason to desire this, “Because past experiences tell me that sometimes my favorite dog may not reach my group ring [if I did not judge the breed].” Another says, “… if I am to do the group, I would love to do most of the breeds. I love sorting breeds. I do not care what class my breed winner comes from, it matters not.” I agree with the judge who says, “Another judge often doesn’t place a breed as I would. I want to reward dogs as I see them, not work with someone else’s choices that day.” 

To be honest, I am just egotistical enough to prefer my opinion of breed winners to be in the group I am judging. There are times that I have judged a breed the day after I have judged that group, and there is what I consider to be an excellent breed example there that was not in the group the day before, and I ask the exhibitor, “Were you here yesterday?” When the answer is “Yes,” I just shake my head. I have heard another judge say, “I am not responsible for other people’s mistakes.”

The other side of this opinion is the judge who says, “It makes group judging faster and easier, but I like the challenge of judging a group blind of the breed entries also.”

Two of the answers that I like to my question about how to improve our shows were:

• Less advertising – more quality.

• Have more educational opportunities for exhibitors and judges at shows.

What do you think?